Chapters 9-13

9/15/2010

Group THREE: REMEMBER: Answer each question COMPLETELY using textual evidence to support your opinions and statements. When responding to others, make sure to add evidence to support your opinion!!!

1. What changes do you notice in Roger Chillingworth in chapter 9? Use evidence from the text and pg. numbers to help with your description. How have these changes been foreshadowed in previous chapters?

2. Describe Dimmesdale's argument as to why men may hold secrets in their hearts in Chapter 10. What does this show us, the reader, about Dimmesdale's character?

3. How does it make sense that Chillingworth is "more wretched than his victim" (94)? Use examples from the text to provide evidence.

4. What is the irony of Reverend Dimmesdale's public confession of sinfulness in Chapter 11? How does he take advantage of this?

48 Comments

Ashley Thalasinos

2/17/2011 06:35:39 am

Question 1,

In chapter 9, Chillingworth is assigned to be Dimmesdale's doctor since he is deathly sick.(page 82) The doctor lives with him and watches his every move. But as time passes, the town begins to question who Chillingworth really was and his history. They also begin t suspect he is the devil and is trying to hurt the minister ( page 85)

Ashley Thalasinos

2/17/2011 06:43:20 am

Question 2,

In chapter 10, Dimmesdale held major secret between him and Chillingworth. Chilingworth told him that he should not keep his secrets bottled up inside, but Dimmesdale refuses to tell. He would much rather suffer than share this hidden past. He said that his matters are between him and God. (page 91) This shows us as the reader that Dimmesdale has a major secret but nobody knows what just yet. I feel that as the book continues, we will slowly learn what this secret is.

Ashley Thalasinos

2/18/2011 11:47:42 pm

Question 3,

Chillingworth is more wrenched than his victim because e is torturing the reverend. He knows Dimmesdale has a secret and is trying to get it out of him. On page 91, Chillingworth tries to get him to share his hidden secret but Dimmesdale said it is between the sufferer and God and nobody else. So Dimmesdale wants to keep his sin bottled up inside.

Ashley Thalasinos

2/20/2011 02:02:03 am

Questoin 4,

The irony of Dimmesdale's confession was that he didn't mean for everyone to see him in the town thats why he did it at niight. But now the whole town knows he has a secret, so soon that secret will be revealed.

Lindsay Whitaker

2/20/2011 07:28:28 am

Question 1:

In chapter 9, I notice that Roger Chillingworth was thought to be very mysterious by the people of the town. He opens his house to Mr. Dimmesdale when he is extremely sick and the townspeople think that is weird and they believe that Roger is satan.(page 85)

Lindsay Whitaker

2/20/2011 07:54:48 am

Question 2:

Dimmesdale says that "They fear to take up the shame that rightfully belongs to them." (page 88) When he says this I imagine that he is thinking about and describing himself. This made me believe that he is hypocritical because he is talking about men fearing the shame that they might receive, but at the same time he is hiding a very big seret himself.

Lindsay Whitaker

2/20/2011 08:05:44 am

Question 3:

I think Roger Chillingworth is more watched than his victim because Mr. Dimmesdale is a priest and he is staying in Chillingworth's home. On page 81 it talks about how Chillingworth was a stranger to the town and nobody really knew him, so not a lot of people knew if he was someone they could trust to take care of their minister or not.

Lindsay Whitaker

2/20/2011 08:16:18 am

Question 4:

In my opinion the irony comes from the fact that he is a minister and he teaches everyone not to sin when in reality, he is a sinner himself. He goes to stand on the scaffold where Hester suffered for her sin. He went at night to avoid being seen, but this is where his secret starts to unfold.

Ragan Moore

2/20/2011 09:59:47 am

Question 1---
Roger Chillingworth has changed from the beginning chapters to this past section in many different ways. He has become a dark individual. One who is consumed with his work and craft. He has become “ugly” and has grown evil in the face- as it says on pg.85. It says on the same page that this was new, and the Puritan town hadn’t noticed the evilness in his face before now. The town also saw him as being haunted or possessed by Satan. His new features seem to have Satan characteristics to them, and the town blames him for that. His room, unlike Dimmesdales, is all about science (pg.84) ; which verifies how much he “worships” his work that he does. He takes much pride in his work, not that this is bad, but it seems to be getting to an obsession in my opinion. When Chillingworth was mentioned in previous chapter you could tell he was going to come back and make a scene. His personality and sneaky practices make it known that he is one who is going to investigate all that has happened, and he is beginning to do so!

Ragan Moore

2/20/2011 10:00:21 am

Question 2---
In Chapter 10, Dimmesdale has an argument with Chillingworth about why some men kept sins buried in their hearts. He explains it by saying some men keep their sins to their self by their very own nature. Some people don’t make everything public, and aren’t comfortable announcing all of their wrong doings. This makes perfect sense because no one likes bragging about something when they know a punishment could be in store for them if they get caught. He says people “shrink from displaying themselves, black and filthy in the view of men” (pg.88) – We all do this. No one likes to show their “dirt” to the world. Dimmesdale says that “no evil of the past can be redeemed by better service” and he goes on to say that people can walk around looking clean as the snow, but really their hearts are blotted with sin. Therefore, even if they don’t confess their sins to the public, their hearts are stained with the sin, and they know they have done wrong. This being said men don’t need to know the wrong doings of another man, God knows and that’s all that matters. In all these statements Dimmesdale makes it shows us that he is man with a solid faith in God and that God knows his sins, therefore, no one else needs to know.

Ragan Moore

2/20/2011 10:16:03 am

Question 3---
It makes sense that Chillingworth is more wretched than his victim because he is on guard constantly. Wretched means distressed, and he is definitely more distressed and worried than Dimmesdale. He is always on his “A” game. Literally! He is constantly working toward figuring out all the secrets to Dimmesdale’s life; and trying to discover something that will lead him closer to uncovering the mystery behind the “A” on Hester’s bosom. His patience and level of stress is always high because he is working toward piecing a part Dimmesdale’s life to figure out the man’s background. Any kind of “detective” work can cause stress on a person, which explains why he is more “wretched than his victim.” (pg.94) On page 83, Chillingworth true character is explained. It is told how he is going to try and dive deep into this patients past and uncover the true remaining’s of his heart. It compares him to a treasure seeker in a dark cavern.

Ragan Moore

2/20/2011 10:27:31 am

Question 4---
It is extremely ironic that Dimmesdale is a reverend and is a sinner. In chapter 11 he explains on page 96 that he is a sinner. He wants to confess his great sin to the crowd, but he can’t bring himself to say it. If he were to confess that he is the father of Pearl, the child that was born because an act of adultery was committed, he could lead many of the Puritan followers away. He being a reverend is supposed to set an example and be a guide for others. But by him admitting that he failed is risking his whole being. However, in his defense we are all human and all make mistakes. None of them or us can be perfect. Humans can’t be perfect, rebellion is in our very nature. Being a sinner is in our making, and we can’t control the fact that we sin. However, we can control how will deal with our sin, and what we do after we sin. The reverend knows he has done wrong and is remorseful, repentance is the next step. However, to me is seems like he is going to eventually tell his deep dark secret. I’m just wondering how the town is going to take it.

Jacob Gulledge

2/21/2011 01:49:15 am

question 1

In chapter 9 Roger Chilligworth has become ugly and evil looking it says in the book that the puritans had never noticed the evil look that he has on his face before.

Ragan Moore

2/21/2011 01:51:28 am

Reply to Ashley-- Question 2
I agree Ashley. When you said that Dimmesdale is holding his secret inside, he is choosing to suffer rather than tell about his past. I feel that he really doesnt have a choice other than to suffer. If he were to tell his secret the town could banish him and hate him for the sin he committed. It seems to me that he is stuck between a rock and a hard place because either choice isnt a great one, and both of them dont have a good outcome in the end.

Jacob Gulledge

2/21/2011 01:53:46 am

question 2

In chapter 10 he says that men should not have secrets burried inside them I think that is because he wants to tell his secret but he cant because he is afraid that he will become like hester and will be allianated in town and he believes that if everyone shared there secrets and sins with everyone it might not be such a big deal and he would be able to finally tell his secret

Jacob Gulledge

2/21/2011 02:05:21 am

I think that he is more wretched than his victims because he is trying to pressure dimsdale into sharing his secret with him wrather than keep it bottled up inside

Jacob Gulledge

2/21/2011 02:06:43 am

I think that the irony is that dimsdale always talks about not sinning but he has sinned his self and instead of admitting it he keeps it from everyone

Jacob Gulledge

2/21/2011 02:07:50 am

question 3 and 4 above

Jacob Gulledge

2/21/2011 02:10:24 am

reply to ashley question 4

I agree with you that he didnt want anyone to know that he has a secret and now they do so they expect him to tell his secret

Jacob Gulledge

2/21/2011 02:14:27 am

reply to lindsay question 1

I agree with you that the towns people think that chillingworth is mysterous and when he starts taking care of dimsdale the towns people think that chillingworth is satan trying to take his soul.

travis jenkins

2/21/2011 02:18:15 am

Question one

Roger Chillingmworth has changed dramtically. He now has a darker outlook about him. He also is constantly trying to get Dimmensdale to confess about his sins. These events weren't foreshadowed in the beginning.

travis jenkins

2/21/2011 02:19:10 am

Question 2

Dimmensdale says that men may hold their sins in their hearts instead of confessing them. That says that Dimmensdale is hiding a sin of his own. If he did not say that then he would have nothing to hide.

Ashley Thalasinos

2/21/2011 02:19:18 am

Reply to Lindsay question 1,

I agree with you that Roger Chillingworth was very mysterious with the people in the town. He came out of no where and then stayed around to help out. At first the town thought it was a nice gesture for him to invite Dimmesdale into his home and take care of him, but as time passes they think it is weird and they believe he is satan.

Justin

2/21/2011 02:19:27 am

Roger seems to be changing because he looks and acts more evil. Even the townspeople say that he is a follower of satan and is attempting to bring down Dimmesdale. #1

travis jenkins

2/21/2011 02:19:53 am

Question 3

When Roger Chillingworth says that he is more wretched than his victim he means that he is worse of a person than Dimmensdale is because he is constanly messing with him trying to find out what he is hiding.

travis jenkins

2/21/2011 02:20:34 am

Question 4

The irony of Dimmensdale's confession of sin was that he did not mean for everyone to find out. He was just standing with Hester and Pearl and Chillingworth saw him and he found out that Dimmensdale was the father.

Ashley Thalasinos

2/21/2011 02:21:16 am

Reply to Jacob, question 3,

I agree with you that he is pressuring Dimmesdale to share his secret. That makes Chillingworth more wrenched than his victim.

Ashley Thalasinos

2/21/2011 02:22:43 am

Reply to Travis, Question 1,

I agree with you that Chillingworth's caracter has changed a lot since the beginning. Now he has a weird side about him and wants to get Dimmesdale to confess his sin for some reason.

Jacob Gulledge

2/21/2011 02:24:21 am

reply to ragan question 4

I agree with you that it's very ironic that he is a reverened and a siner and being a revrened means that your supposed to set an example for the rest of the puritans.Maybe if he shows the puritans that even he has messed up before maybe he will set an example to the rest of them and they will find it a little easyer to forgive hester for her sin.

Justin

2/21/2011 05:05:44 am

Dimmesdale said that some men may hold their secrets inside of them because they believe they did nothing wrong; or they may not want to be looked down on.

Justin

2/21/2011 05:09:18 am

Chillingsworth is more wretched than his victim because he is doing something even more evil than Dimmesdale did. He is purposely trying to plot someones downfall and watching it from the sidelines. pg.94-95

Justin

2/21/2011 05:10:47 am

The irony behind his public confession of sinfullness is the fact that everyone in the town sees him as a pious figure. Everyone in town believes him to be perfect and looks to him for guidance. Yet out of all of the people he is the one that sins.

Justin

2/21/2011 05:11:33 am

I agree with Travis too it was ironic that Chillingsworth happened to pass by and see Dimmesdale

Justin

2/21/2011 05:13:11 am

Reply to Jacob question 3

I agree that he seems more wretched than Dimmesdale because he is trying to plot someones downfall.

Justin

2/21/2011 05:14:15 am

I agree with Travis on question 2 because Roger is repeatedly trying to find out what kind of secret Dimmesdale is hiding,

Brandie Owen

2/21/2011 07:07:56 am

Question One--

Throughout the Scarlet Letter, Rodger Chillingworth has become very dark and demented. It is said that he is “ugly and evil” in the face (pg. 85). The townspeople had not previously noticed this because during his first couple years of living in America he was not so intense about his sciences and the relationship that was forming between him and the Minister, Dimmesdale. Before, he was seen as “calm, meditative, and scholar-like” (pg. 85) The puritans believed that he was there to help Dimmesdale gain his good health back, but as time passes by they discover that he must have different motives that will be to his benefit. Roger Chillingworth had become so demented that the Puritan community had said that Dimmesdale was haunted by Satan himself (pg. 85). These changes have been foreshadowed in previous chapters because in chapter 4, Roger Chillingworth told Hester that he is going to seek revenge (pg. 51). This shows the audience that he already is very dark when it comes to gaining what he wants. In current chapters, Rodger Chillingworth is trying to figure out what Dimmesdales secret is, which gives him dark motives against Dimmesdale.

Brandie Owen

2/21/2011 07:31:01 am

Question Two--

In Chapter 10, Dimmesdale and Chillingworth have a deep conversation where they discussed their opinions as to why people may hold secrets in their hearts. Chillingworth said that guilty, sinful people should reveal their secrets and make them known so one can sooner avail themselves of the unutterable solace. He also said that men deceive themselves and that they fear to take up the shame that belongs to them. He mentioned that if men seek to glorify God, then they will not lift unclean hands to their creator (pg. 88). But Dimmesdale mentions a different approach to keeping secrets in your heart. Dimmesdale says that some secrets are better left between God and man. He gives the example, “Why should a wretched man, guilty, we will say, of murder, prefer to keep the dead corpse rather than fling it forth at once and let the universe take care of it?” (pg. 91) This really shows the kindness and understanding that Dimmesdales character has. It takes a man of love and forgiveness to be able to understand that not all secrets should be made known to man, and that the important thing is that sins are confessed to God and a lesson is learned. This also shows that he Is a great man of spirituality.

Lindsay Whitaker

2/21/2011 07:33:09 am

reply to ashley (question 3):

I agree that Chillingworth is more wrenched because he is torturing the reverend! Chillingworth knows that Mr. Dimmesdale has a secret, but he isn't sure what the secret is!

Lindsay Whitaker

2/21/2011 07:36:05 am

reply to travis (question 2):

I agree that if Dimmesdale didnt have a secret that he was hiding, he probably wouldnt have said that "men may hold their sins in their hearts instead of confessing them".

Lindsay Whitaker

2/21/2011 07:42:17 am

reply to ragan (question 1):

I agree that Chillingworth has become a darker individual. I also agree that his new dark features were not noticed by the townspeople earlier and now that they see him they believe that his new features have Satan-like aspects to them. And since they believe that Satan is in him, they are suspicious and worried that he is taking care of their reverend.

Brandie Owen

2/21/2011 10:48:32 am

Question Three--

I would definitely consider Roger Chillingworth to be more “wretched than his victim” –his victim being Dimmesdale of course. Wretched, meaning misery, sorrow, or great pain is more so in Chillingworths case than in Dimmesdales. Roger Chillingworth is constantly trying to seek into Dimmesdales heart for the secret that he is keeping to himself, while making himself drained in the process. It is said, “He became, thenceforth, not a spectator only, but a chief actor in the poor minister’s interior world. He could play upon him as he chose.” (pg. 93). When someone spends even an ounce of their time trying to sabotage someone else’s life, their life is usually the one that is affected in negative ways. It also says, “Would he arouse him with a throb of agony? The victim was for ever on the rack; it needed only to know the spring that controlled the engine; -- and the physician knew it well.” (pg. 93). This shows us that Roger Chillingworth has planned on controlling Dimmesdale, and tricking him or searching his heart until he finds the answers he’s looking for. This all indicates that Chillingworth is more "wretched than his victim" because even though Dimmesdale is in pain both physically and emotionally, the problems that are going to rise in front of Chillingworths path might have greater consequences then those of Dimmesdales.

Brandie Owen

2/21/2011 11:21:34 am

Question Four--

The irony of Reverend Dimmesdale's public confession of sinfulness is that he (according to most people) should be a very holy man and should not have to ever feel the need to stand up on a scaffold and give a confession. He plays an important role in the puritan town as a minister. This means that he should be a man of holiness, and that he should be the role model for the town of how to live a pure and sinless life. Of course this is nowhere near possible because humans were born with the nature to sin, but to the people of the puritan community, he is considered to be a very pure man. Since he is the minister of the town, almost everyone looks up to him. I’m sure he feels that if he were to make his sin known to everyone by standing up on the scaffold during daylight and confessing with his tongue the deep sin of his heart, then he might lead people away from the lord. Dimmesdale takes advantage of this because since he is highly looked upon, the people of the town do not believe he can commit such a crime. In fact, when he confessed to the people listening one Sunday that he was a sinner, “They heard it all, and did but reverence him the more… The saint on earth!” (pg. 96) The townspeople believed that he was so holy, that he wasn’t capable of such sin. Even when the sexton showed him the glove that he had found on the scaffold that next morning after he stood on it and confessed, the sexton said that it must have been Satan (implying that it was Roger Chillingworth) who had placed the glove there. No one could ever believe that Reverend Dimmesdale would ever have a reason to stand on the scaffold.

Ragan Moore

2/21/2011 11:22:56 am

Reply to Lindsay-- Question 4
Lindsey he is definitely showing the irony in the fact that he is a preacher and yet a sinner too that has a secret. It seems like be him being a sinner too he is trying to hide everything that comes along with it. Even though we know that not even preachers can be perfect, we know they should set an example and by Dimmesdale trying to cover up his sin, he is setting the example that this is okay. When really covering up a sin can work for a while, but eventually the truth will come out. I agree with you 100 percent.

Ragan Moore

2/21/2011 11:28:59 am

Reply to Brandie-- Question 3
When you said that "when someone tries to sabotage someone else life theirs usually gets drained in the process" is such a true statement. When you try and corrupt someone elses world besides your own, it normally takes more out of you than it would to just leave the whole situation alone. By Chillingworth doing this to Dimmesdale he is hurting his reputation and his own status in the Puritan community. People seem to be beginning to notice and I think it is going to start taking its toll on Chillingworth.

Brandie Owen

2/21/2011 11:34:22 am

Reply to Ragan Moore (Question Two)--

I completely agree with you when you said “no one likes bragging about something when they know a punishment could be in store for them if they get caught”. As humans we want mostly everyone to think that we are not “dirt” and that we do not live a sinless life, but we sometimes forget that everyone falls under the sinner category because it’s our nature to sin. Roger Chillingworth also said, “men deceive themselves” (pg. 88). But I like what Dimmesdale said about how people can look pure, but know they have done wrong. This doesn’t mean that they might have repented and have been forgiven by the love and grace of God, but they just haven’t made it known publicly. Which is okay as long as it’s between God and himself. I like how Dimmesdale is a man that is, like you said, has a solid faith in God, and that he is learning from the mistakes he has made in his past.

Brandie Owen

2/21/2011 11:45:40 am

Reply to Ashley Thalasinos (Question Three)--

I really like how Dimmesdale told Chillingworth that his secret is between himself and God. This is a really important statement that Dimmesdale makes because it shows the faith he has and the strength of his spirituality. Chillingworth is driving himself insane trying to figure out what secret Dimmesdale has, and he’s not gaining anything but a demented look in the process. I was also thinking about how hypocritical Chillingworth has been by saying things such as, “Why should not the guilty ones sooner avail themselves of this unutterable solace?” (pg. 88) because it seems to be that he has a secret of his own; the secret that no one knows he is the husband of Hester Prynne. It looks to me like he has some confessing to do himself.

Brandie Owen

2/21/2011 11:54:43 am

Reply to Lindsay Whitaker (Question Four)--

I agree that it is very ironic that Reverend Dimmesdale, being a preacher, preaches to the people of the puritan community how it is wrong to sin. However, He does make it know to his audience that he is a sinner and they do, in fact, admire him even more calling him “The saint on earth!” (pg. 96). It must be a tough job being a minister because people are constantly looking up to them and wanting to be as holy as they seem to be. So when someone sins just like everyone else, such as Dimmesdale, they feel as if they cannot let their sin be known because of their ranking in society. I do think that Dimmesdale standing on the scaffold at night is a step towards the truth coming out. I’m very curious to see how it all plays out and how the town, especially Chillingworth, reacts to the news.

Morgan Joseph link

2/15/2017 06:21:02 pm

Question 4:

It is ironic because Dimmesdale believes that he should be shamed and punished for his sins. However, when he tells the townspeople that he is a sinner, they only love him more because they see him as humble.

Chapters 9-13

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