Chapters 9-13

9/15/2010

Group TWO: REMEMBER: Answer each question COMPLETELY using textual evidence to support your opinions and statements. When responding to others, make sure to add evidence to support your opinion!!!

1. What changes do you notice in Roger Chillingworth in chapter 9? Use evidence from the text and pg. numbers to help with your description. How have these changes been foreshadowed in previous chapters?

2. Describe Dimmesdale's argument as to why men may hold secrets in their hearts in Chapter 10. What does this show us, the reader, about Dimmesdale's character?

3. How does it make sense that Chillingworth is "more wretched than his victim" (94)? Use examples from the text to provide evidence.

4. What is the irony of Reverend Dimmesdale's public confession of sinfulness in Chapter 11? How does he take advantage of this?

39 Comments

travis jenkins

2/19/2011 12:04:00 pm

Roger Chillingmworth has changed dramtically. He now has a darker outlook about him. He also is constantly trying to get Dimmensdale to confess about his sins. These events weren't foreshadowed in the beginning.

travis jenkins

2/19/2011 12:15:26 pm

Question 2

Dimmensdale says that men may hold their sins in their hearts instead of confessing them. That says that Dimmensdale is hiding a sin of his own. If he did not say that then he would have nothing to hide.

travis jenkins

2/19/2011 12:21:35 pm

Question 3

When Roger Chillingworth says that he is more wretched than his victim he means that he is worse of a person than Dimmensdale is because he is constanly messing with him trying to find out what he is hiding.

travis jenkins

2/19/2011 12:48:43 pm

Question 4

The irony of Dimmensdale's confession of sin was that he did not mean for everyone to find out. He was just standing with Hester and Pearl and Chillingworth saw him and he found out that Dimmensdale was the father.

Carly VanLandingham

2/20/2011 02:12:27 am

Question 1
In chapter 9 the reader notices that Chillingworth has changed in the fact the he is almost going crazy. When he came to the town he was calm and collected, but now that he has been trying to get Dimmesdale to tell him his secret for so long it is slowly driving him crazy. Page 85 says, "... Roger Chillingworth’s aspect had undergone a remarkable change while he had dwelt in town, and especially since his abode with Mr. Dimmesdale. At first, his expression had been calm, meditative, scholar-like. Now, there was something ugly and evil in his face..." This passage explains how the townspeople had noticed the changes in Chillingworth's behaviors.

Carly VanLandingham

2/20/2011 02:20:17 am

Question 2
While Chillingworth and Dimmesdale are discussing their opinions on confessing sin, Dimmesdale says that men don't always confess their sin. He justifies his opinion by explaing that if a man were to confess a sin the entire town would look at him differently because of it. Even afte he has asked for forgiveness he won't be allowed to do the same things he once was. He may have many good things to contribute to the town but because of his sin he can no longer contribute. On page 88 Dimmesdale says, "“But, not to suggest more obvious reasons, it may be that they are kept silent by the very constitution of their nature. Or,—can we not suppose it?—guilty as they may be, retaining, nevertheless, a zeal for God’s glory and man’s welfare, they shrink from displaying themselves black and filthy in the view of men; because, thenceforward, no good can be achieved by them; no evil of the past be redeemed by better service."

Carly VanLandingham

2/20/2011 02:40:04 am

Question 4
Dimmesdale's public confession is ironic because he does it in the middle of the night when everyone is in their home sleeping. He got upon the same scaffoldings as Hesters and confessed his sin, but no one was there to witness it. Hester and Pearl came across him after awhile. Pearl asked him to come back up on the scaffoldings the next day at noon and tell everyone that he was her father, but he refused. On page 102 says, ""But wilt thou promise," asked Pearl "to take my hand andmother's hand, to-morrow noontide?" "Not then, Pearl" said the minister; "but another time!" "And what other time?" persisted the child. “At the great judgment day!” whispered the minister,—and, strangely enough, the sense that he was a professional teacher of the truth impelled him to answer the child so. “Then, and there, before the judgment-seat, thy mother, and thou, and I, must stand together! But the daylight of this world shall not see our meeting!”"

Larissa Fogle

2/20/2011 11:45:52 am

Question 1:
Chillingworth is described on page 85 as being calm, meditative and scholar like at first, now he seems as if evil has come over him ever since he started taking care of Dimmesdale. These changes have been foreshadowed when Hester and Chillinworth have a private talk in chapter 4. Hester says, “Art thou like the black man that haunts the forest round about us? Hast thou enticed me into a bond that will prove the ruin of my soul?” Chillinworth replied with “Not thy soul. No, not thine.” This means Hester’s soul will not be effected, but someone else’s will be.

Larissa Fogle

2/20/2011 11:48:42 am

Question 2:
Dimmesdale says men hold secrets in their hearts because it’s in their nature to keep quiet. He also gives the reason of men wanting to keep the well-being of others intact instead of destroying it with such secrets (page 88). This shows us that Dimmesdale knows how to stick up for himself without letting others know he is and he can be conciderate to others.

Taylor Thornlow

2/21/2011 02:22:10 am

Question 1:

Roger Chillingsworth has changed but for the worst. It almost seems as if he is turning evil because he is taking care of Dimmesdale. He's trying tp find out all of these details about Dimmesdale and find out his dark secret, and because he hasn't really found out at this point in the novel, he's slowly lossing his mind and basically going crazy to me.

Larissa Fogle

2/21/2011 05:36:52 am

Question 3:
Chillingworth is “more wretched than his victim” because usually when people try to torture others they also become miserable in the process and on page 94, Hawthorne says Chillingworth had even devoted himself.

Larissa Fogle

2/21/2011 06:08:14 am

Question 4:
The irony in Dimmesdale’s public confession is that he confesses without truly telling everyone of his secret. When Dimmesdale gives the town this speech, which hints towards he definitely has done something wrong, “...a viler companion of the vilest, the worst of sinners, an abomination, a thing of unimaginable iniquity, and that the only wonder was that they did not see his wretched body shriveled up before their eyes by the burning wrath of the Almighty!”(page 96, he doesn’t understand why the people didn’t “tear him down”. I think he is taking advantage of this by practicing how he will end up just coming forth with the entire truth instead of making people think past the words.

Larissa Fogle

2/21/2011 06:13:24 am

reply to Carly, Question 2:
I agree that once Dimmesdale comes forward with his secret the town will no longer let him contribute, and if they do he won't be aloud to be a minister. He might get a worse punishment than Hester since it's been 7 years and he is someone who is supposed to practice exactly what he preaches.

Alivia Cutts

2/21/2011 06:18:10 am

Question 1
Roger CHillingworth has become very mysterious in his ways. SOme in the community even suspect him of evil, with all of his knowledge of how to make medicines out of herbs and roots he finds in the forest. Page 85 describes him in physical features. "At first his expression had been calm, meditive, scholar-like. Now there was something ugly and evil in his face." These changes have been foreshadowed through the other chapters by how much he is into finding the Reverends cure.

Alivia Cutts

2/21/2011 06:21:13 am

Question 2
Dimmensdale argues that man may hold secrets because of what others may think of when the man reveals, and that itmay be the man's character to keep the secret no matter how guilty his heart may make him feel. The way he argues shows that he may be hiding something and will always keep his problems and guiltto himself. He cares more about others hearts and their confessions.

Alivia Cutts

2/21/2011 06:23:31 am

Question 3
It makes since that Roger Chillingworth is being watched more than his victim, Mr. Dimmensdale. Mr. Dimmensdale is a very spiritual and respected man in the communtity, while Roger Chiillingworth is an outsider that they don't really know anything about, besides the stories that he had told them, which are now long forgotten.

Alivia Cutts

2/21/2011 06:27:55 am

Question 4
The Reverend would confess his sins but the congregation wouldn't believe the truth behind his words that he spoke to them. They said he was a saint and if he could see sin in his pure soul, then he must see horrors in theirs. The Reverend most definitely took advantage of the way the congregation had thought of him. The Reverend took advantage by going forth with life and not telling the community that it was really true and that they should see he really is a hpocrite.

Alivia Cutts

2/21/2011 06:31:30 am

Reply to Carly Vanlandingham. Question 2.
I like the way that you put how he had been talking to the Dictor but about himself at the same time. I saw it more as in general and not thee example that was given from the minister. Though, I do see what you mean. I wish i would have seen it. I really like your veiw.

Alivia Cutts

2/21/2011 06:34:30 am

Reply to Taylor Thornlow. Question 1.
I like the way you describe your opinion of the Doctor. It makes since to see him as crazy but to me it is his way of getting revenge on Hester Pryne.

Alivia Cutts

2/21/2011 06:39:13 am

Reply to Larissa. Question 3.
I missed where it says that Chillingworth had devoted himself in the working's of getting revenge on Hester. It seems that he is miserable, and understand what is your opinion of torturing another and becoming miserable in ones self.

Colby Conklin

2/21/2011 08:05:20 am

Question 1
Roger Chillingworth experienced many changes, apon his return from the wilderness mentioned on page 79, you notice that he's ashamed of who he is and lives secertly as a doctor.At first the town welcomes him and respects him. But while taking care of Dimmesdale, the others in the town notice something different about him. Some say he was mad

Colby Conklin

2/21/2011 08:23:36 am

Question 2.
Dimmesdale argues thatmen hold secrets in their hearts which basically is saying that men are holding in their secrets because of embarassment. In my opinion, dimmesdale may have a feeling that Chillingworth knows that he's hiding something and feels guilty for what he's done and what he's putting Hesterand his own daughter through. Which cant help the fact that he's also dying at the same time

Colby Conklin

2/21/2011 08:35:25 am

Question 3.
On page 94 Chillingworth is accused of being "more wretched than his victim." Chillingworth see's how he tortures Dimmesdale and is astonished how devoted he is to him.

Colby Conklin

2/21/2011 10:08:06 am

Question 4.
The reverend confess his sins but during the middle of the night while everyone was sleeping, which is ironic considering he wants everyone to know so bad the crime he committed, but yeah he's not brave enough to stand up like a man and let everyone know face to face the truth.

Carly VanLandingham

2/21/2011 10:23:21 am

Question 3
On page 94 Chillingowrth is described as "more wretched than his victim." This makes sense because he is quite literally driving himself crazy trying to get Dimmesdale to confess his secret. He is going insane and damaging his physical health. He is almost making himself sicker than the patient he is supposed to be curing.

Carly VanLandingham

2/21/2011 10:32:30 am

Reply to Alivia Question 4
I really like your angle on this question. I didn't really think of him as taking advantage of the fact that the townspeople didnt believe that he could commit sin. I see how that could be a possibility now though.

Carly VanLandingham

2/21/2011 10:37:24 am

Reply to Larissa Question 2
I like how you said that Dimmesdale could defend himself in a way so that others wouldn't know he was. It emphasizes the fact that he was explaining to Chillingworth his exact situation and how he felt, just in a way that wasn't so personal that Chillingworth would notice he was really talking about himself.

Carly VanLandingham

2/21/2011 10:42:32 am

Reply to Alivia Question 3
I agree with you when you said Chillingworth was being watched more than Dimmesdale. The townspeople didn't really know him and didn't have much evidence to say that he was a good person. Also the fact that he was going crazy trying to figure out Dimmesdale didn't put him in a very good light.

Larissa Fogle

2/21/2011 10:50:09 am

Reply to Alivia, Question 3:
I agree with you how Chillingworth is really a mystery to the town. The only thing people know about how he is, is what he cares to share with others. The only person who really knows is Hester.

Larissa Fogle

2/21/2011 10:55:57 am

Reply to Colby, Question 4:
I agree that Dimmesdale isn’t brave and he should just tell everyone the truth. Sooner he gets it over with, the better, maybe.

Ray Edwards

2/21/2011 11:54:02 am

Question 1
The changes I notice about Roger Chillingworth are that his appearance has drastically changed from the confident, helpful doctor to a somewhat evil portrayal. on pg 85 it says at first he was calm and scholar-like then he changed to having an evil in his face. These changes have been forshadowed because in the beggining he told Hester about how he was going to get revenge on the father of her child.

Ray Edwards

2/21/2011 12:04:55 pm

Question 2
In chapter 10 Dimmesdale tells Chillingworth reasons why men hold secrets in their heart and his reasoning is on pg 88 "it may be that they are kept silent by the very constitution of their name." This meaning since he is a reverend it is hard to admit it because how important he is to the town. Also on pg 88 "they shrink from displaying themselves black and filthy in the view of men...to their ununtterable torment, they go about among their fellow-creatures, looking pure as new fallen snow." This meaning instead of admitting to the people what they have done they will be punished within themselves for te secret that they have to hide, which Dimmesdale is suffering from harshly.

Ray Edwards

2/21/2011 12:17:25 pm

Question 3
It makes sense when it says Chillingworth is more wretched than his victim because by toying with Dimmesdale making him suffer because he knows his secret, Chillingworth bases his whole life now on torturing Dimmesdale so this is making him look coniving and evil and making him seem somewhat pshycotic. "Calm, gentle, passionless, as he appeared, there was yet, we fear, a quiet depth of malice, hitherto latent, but active now, in this unfortunate old man, which led him to imagine a more intimate revenge than any mortal had ever wreaked upon an enemy." This is again saying what a crazy level that Chillingworth has gone to in his mental toture of Dimmesdale.

Ray Edwards

2/21/2011 12:23:28 pm

Question 4
The irony of Reverend Dimmesdale's confession is that it is done in the middle of the night on the scaffold when everyone is sleeping. He takes advantage of this by doing it when no one is around so he can feel assurance that it is done, but at the same time not be looked at evily amongst the people because they themselves wouldn't have known.

Ray Edwards

2/21/2011 12:29:57 pm

Reply to Colby's question 3
Dimmesdale doesn't notice that what he is doing to Dimmesdale is making him crazy. He is too caught up in his revenge to notice this. If what you said is true then i think Chillingworth would come to the realization that what he is doing, is in-fact hurting him more or just as much as it is Dimmesdale.

scott tyson

2/21/2011 08:18:45 pm

Question 1

some of the townspeople, without any real evidence except for the growing appearance of evil in Chillingworth's face, begin to develop suspicions about the doctor. These changes are foreshadowed by how he has been acting towards other towns people.

scott tyson

2/22/2011 12:04:00 pm

Question 2

Dimmesdale keeps on trying to persuade Chillingsworth to have sympathy on the man because maybe he was afraid to confess his sins. Chilligworth keeps on hinting to Dimmesdale that it would have gievn him relief if the man would have gotten the sins off of his chest. This shows us, the readers, that Dimmesdale is secretive and afriad of what people think.

scott tyson

2/22/2011 12:27:12 pm

Question 3

It makes sense that Chillingworth is more wretched than his victim because he is worrying way too much about what's going on with Dimmesdale than he is with his other patients.

scott tyson

2/22/2011 12:34:45 pm

Question 4

The irony in this is that he was hiding his secret sin and when he confessed, it was both his salvation and final effect of his sins.

Chapters 9-13

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