Chapters 9-13

9/15/2010

Group One: REMEMBER: Answer each question COMPLETELY using textual evidence to support your opinions and statements. When responding to others, make sure to add evidence to support your opinion!!!

1. What changes do you notice in Roger Chillingworth in chapter 9? Use evidence from the text and pg. numbers to help with your description. How have these changes been foreshadowed in previous chapters?

2. Describe Dimmesdale's argument as to why men may hold secrets in their hearts in Chapter 10. What does this show us, the reader, about Dimmesdale's character?

3. How does it make sense that Chillingworth is "more wretched than his victim" (94)? Use examples from the text to provide evidence.

4. What is the irony of Reverend Dimmesdale's public confession of sinfulness in Chapter 11? How does he take advantage of this?

49 Comments

Ashley Beckham

2/18/2011 09:41:43 am

Question 1

When Roger Chillingworth was first introduced into the book it says he looked travel-worn and he was wearing a mixture of civil clothes and a savage costume. As the author introduces him again in chapter 9 she talks about how intellegent and sophisticated he seems to be to the town. He introduced himself as a physician. But as time went on the town began to grow suspicious of Chillingworth. "At first his expression seemed calm, meditative, scholar-like. Now there was something ugly and evil in his face, which they had not previously noticed, and which grew still the more obvious to sight the oftener they looked upon him." (pg. 85)

Ashley Beckham

2/18/2011 10:06:20 am

Question 2

Dimmesdale says that men may hold secrets in their hearts because it may just be in their nature to do so. He also says that if a man has a zeal for God's glory and men's welfare he will hide a secret because if people saw him as he really was then no good can be achieved by them. "...no evil of the past can be achieved by better service." (pg. 88) This shows me that Dimmesdale knows how to defend himself without actually defending himself. It also shows me that he believes there are certain secrets to be kept secrets. It kind of makes him seem like he's trying to use self preservation above all else.

Ashley Beckham

2/18/2011 10:29:26 am

Question 3

It makes sense that Chillingworth is more wretched than his victim because he tortures Reverend Dimmesdale. The book says, "Would he arouse him with a throb of agony? The victim was forever on the rack; it needed only to know the spring that controlled the engine;-and and the physician knew it well!" (pg.93) Chillingworth knows that Dimmesdale has a secret so he trys to make him feel worthless and he trys to guilt him into telling him. Chillingworth says to Dimmesdale on (pg. 88), "Why should not the guilty ones sooner avail themselves of this unutterable solace?"

Emily Clark

2/20/2011 02:14:22 am

Question 1

Roger Chillingworth first enters the town when Hester is on the scaffold for the first time. He is discribed as travel worn and Hester notices his shoulders to be uneven. In chapter 9 he has become the physician in charge of Master Dimmesdale. He is said to be a skillful man who urges Dimmesdale to accept help. On page 85 "At first, his expression had been calm, meditative, scholar-like. Now there was something ugly and evil in his face, which they had not previously noticed, and which grew still more obvious to sight the oftener they looked upon him." In this chapter on page 85 it is also said "...Reverand Arthur Dimmesdale, like many other personages of special sanctity, in all ages of the Christian world, was haunted either by Satan himself or Satan's emissary, in the guise of old Roger Chillingworth."

Emily Clark

2/20/2011 02:21:30 am

Question 2

In chapter 10 Dimmesdale gives reasons as to why men do not confess their sins. One of the reasons he states on page 88 is that they do not wish to display themselves as "black and filthy in the view of men." He says that if a man is seen this way then "no evil from the past can be redeemed by better service." When he shares this information with Chillingworth it leads us to think that he is hiding something and that is why he has so much insight on the subject.

Emily Clark

2/20/2011 05:10:22 am

Question 3

It makes sense that Chillingworth is more wretched than his victim for one main reason. On page 92 "But what distinguished the physician's ecstasy from Satan's was the trait of wonder in it!" This shows the path of destruction that Chillingworth has chosen to take. He is forced to live with the guilt of the actions in which he undertakes while caring for the reverend. On page 93 "To make himself the one trusted friend, to whom should be confided all the fear, the remorse, the agony, the ineffectual repentance, the backward rush of sinful thoughts, expelled in vain!" Chillingworth will have to live with knowing that Dimmesdale trusted him even though he was only after his secret.

Emily Clark

2/20/2011 05:26:01 am

Question 4

What is ironic about the reverend's public speech is that the townspeople are not aware of the sin he has committed. On page 96 "They heard it all, and did but reverence him the more. They little guessed what deadly purport lurked in those self-condemning words." Dimmesdale took advantage of this unawareness by confessing without giving away his sin. Since there is no awareness of this sin then there is no punishment.

Thomas Carota

2/20/2011 08:43:09 am

Question 1

In chapter 9 Chillingsworth is introduced again as he has to move in with Reverend Dimmesdale in order to take care of is deathly illness (pg 84). At first the town thought of the Physician as intelligent and skillful (pg 79). But as time went on, the town became very suspicious of Chillingsworth, as forshadowed in previous chapters. They believe Chillingsworth is the devil and came to try and hurt the Reverend (pg 85)

Thomas Carota

2/20/2011 08:50:28 am

Question 2

In Chapter 10, Reverend Dimmesdale kept a secret between himself and Chillingsworth. Chillingsworth plays mind cames with Dimmesdale to get the truth out of him. However, Dimmesdale keeps on refusing to tell. He tells Chillingsworth that he shall suffer the consequences between him and God (pg 91). He said he would rather suffer than reveal his past. This tells us that Dimmesdale has a big secret from his past that he refuses to tell anybody. I believe that as the book goes on, we will start to learn and understand what this secret Dimmesdale is keeping from everybody might be.

Thomas Carota

2/20/2011 09:05:56 am

Question 3

It makes sense that Chillingsworth is more wretched than him victim for one main reason. On page 85, The townspeople believe that Chillingsworth is only here to torture the reverend. Chillingsworth knows that reverend Dimmesdale is keeping a secret from him, so he tortures him with mind games to try and get the truth out of him (pg 83) On page 83 it says, So Roger Chillingsworth-the man of skill, the kind of physician-strove to go deep into his patient's bosom, delving among his principles, prying into his recollections, and probing everything with a cautious touch, like a treasure-seeker in a dark cavern. This means Chillingsworth tortures the reverend to try and discover the truth about his dark past.

Thomas Carota

2/20/2011 09:11:32 am

Question 4

What is ironic of Dimmesdale's public confession in Chapter 11 is that his admits to sinning, but the town does not known what sin he has commited. It is also very ironic that he is the reverend and teaches everyone not to sin, but in fact he is actually the sinner himself. He takes advantage of this by telling the people he has sinned without naming the sin. On page 96 he says, "I, your pastor, whom you so reverence and trust, am utterly a pollution and a lie!"

Emily Clark

2/20/2011 09:25:08 am

Reply to Thomas Question 4

I completely agree with what you say the irony is in Dimmesdale's public confession. He tells the townspeople he has sinned but leaves them unaware of the sin he committed. On page 95 Dimmesdale is thinking about his grave and wonders if any grass will grow there "because an accursed thing must there be buried!"

Emily

2/20/2011 09:25:43 am

Emily Clark

2/20/2011 09:31:43 am

Reply to Ashley Question 1

I completely agree with your discription of Chillingworth in chapter 9. On page 85 "This diabolical agent had the Divine permission, for a season, to burrow into the clergyman's intimacy, and plot against his soul." The townspeople feel that if Dimmesdale remains in this friendship with Chillingworth that he will ultimately lose the battle.

Emily Clark

2/20/2011 09:38:19 am

Reply to Thomas Question 2

I agree that Dimmesdale has a secret that does not wish to share. On page 88 he gives distinctive reasons as to why a man does not confess his sins. One reason is that it is his nature but the other reason deals with how society will look upon him. This leads us to believe that Dimmesdale has personal insight to the hidding of a sin.

Abbey Byrd

2/20/2011 11:53:39 am

In chapter 9 Rodger Chillingworth is believed to have taking on the face of something evil. In the book it says " Now there was something ugly and evil in his face that those reasonable people hadn't noticed before". Looking back on previous chapters, Chillingworth was introduced as an intelligent skillful man. He was a physician therefor he moved in with Dimmesdale while he was ill. The town was beginning to get more and more suspicious of him when he roomed with Dimmesdale.

Abbey Byrd

2/20/2011 11:57:24 am

^^^^Question 1

Abbey Byrd

2/20/2011 12:24:47 pm

Question 2

In chapter 10 Dimmesdale argues about why men might hold secrets in their hearts. he said "Their hearts are all speckled and spotted with iniquity of which they can not get rid themselves". I think by this he meant that people that confess their sin look dirty to others too when just having that sin bottle up inside you weighing on your heart and mind is just enough of a punishment in itself. This is making Chillingworth suspicious of Dimmesdale.

ryan smith link

2/21/2011 07:32:01 am

At the beggining of chapter 9, Chillingsworht was said to be well-torn which was said on page 79. He was known as the town physician. Later on in the chapter, he seemed more sophisticated and had somewhat of an evil appeareance to himself as he became suspicious of Dimmesdale. As on page 85, it says " Roger Chillingsworth's aspect had undergone a remarkable change while he had dwelt in the town, and especially since his abode with Mr. Dimmesdale. At first, his expression had been calm, meditative, scholar-like. Now there was something ugly and evil in his face, which they had not previously noticed."

cara saxton

2/21/2011 08:37:27 am

In chapter 9 roger chillingworth has changed a lot. He is known as the town physician. But as the chapter goes on he seems to get a little bit more evil!

cara saxton

2/21/2011 08:43:25 am

In chapter 10 Dimmesdale argues with everyone about why men keep secrets in their secerts. Dimmesdale and Roger share the secert but Roger likes to play mind games to get the secert out but Dimmesdale refuses to tell.

cara saxton

2/21/2011 08:45:24 am

It makes sense that Chillingsworth is more wretched than him victim for one main reason.This shows the path of destruction that Chillingworth has chosen to take. He is forced to live with the guilt of the actions in which he undertakes while caring for the reverend.

ryan smith link

2/21/2011 08:45:51 am

Dimmesdale argues that men should be able to hold secrets to their heart because it is their nature to do so(p.88) " A zeal of God's glory and man's welfare, they shrink from displaying themselves black and filthy in the view of men; because, thenceforward, no good can be acheived by them; no evil of the past be redeemmed by better service.(p. 88). This says that u pretty much keep it the secret between you and God becuase its only yours and his business. This shows readers that Dimmesdale obviously has something to hide and is willing to do about anything to keep it a secret.

cara saxton

2/21/2011 08:46:14 am

cara saxton

2/21/2011 08:47:37 am

What is ironic about the reverend's public speech is that the townspeople are not aware of the sin he has committed. He takes advantage of this by telling the people he has sinned without naming the sin.

cara saxton

2/21/2011 08:50:23 am

I completely agree with what you say the irony is in Dimmesdale's public confession. He tells the townspeople he has sinned but leaves them unaware of the sin he committed.

ryan smith link

2/21/2011 08:58:43 am

Chillingsworht is "more wretched than his victim" because Chillings worth is suspicious of Dimmesdale and believes he is hiding something from him. So he plays mind games. On page 83 i believe, Chillingsworth explains how he wants to go deep inside Dimmesdale's bosom to find out this secret. He has tortured Dimmesdale to do this and yet Dimmesdale has held back from telling.

Mallory Colbert

2/21/2011 09:08:48 am

Question 1:
As we delve further into the novel Roger Chillingworth’s true character comes into view. While at first he seems likes a flustered man who arrives in somewhat of a fuss in the middle of Hester’s public shaming, he is now seen as a great physician. On page 80 Hawthorne writes that the puritans see him as a man of great skill. “He was now known to be a man of skill” as opposed to the withered, travel beaten man of before. He even becomes Reverend Dimmesdale’s full time physician.

Question 2:
At first, Dimmesdale takes a Holy approach, stating that it really doesn’t matter whether a sinner confesses because his sin will be revealed on judgment day, but it will not be as big as issue as it is on earth (pg. 87-88). Then Dimmesdale goes onto say that it may just be the very nature of the man himself. Here: “But, not to suggest more obvious reasons, it may be that they are kept silent by the very constitution of their nature.” He continues to explain that the sinner may have been seen as quite the opposite in the eyes of people around him and he is afraid that if his secret is revealed, he can no longer do good for the people and they will see no good in the world they live in. (pg. 88) This shows me that Dimmesdale must have secrets of his own, and instead of standing up and revealing his secret, he is prone to weakness and cowardess and hiding behind excuses.

Question 3:
Chillingworth is described as “more wretched than his victim” because he is more miserable that him.
He spends his night and day prying open the Ministers mind only to have made little progress. He is searching so deeply to uncover the darkness within Dimmesdale that he is withering away himself. On page 94 Hawthorne talks of Chillingworth’s ‘plans’. Here he talks of how chillingworth secretly acts towards Dimmesdale: “All this was accomplished with a subtlety so perfect, that the minister, though he had constantly a dim perception of some evil influence watching over him, could never gain a knowledge of its actual nature.”

Question 4:
Reverend Dimmedale’s public confession is ironic because his followers actually take pity on him, in fact, their admiration only increased. “They heard it all, and did but reverence him the more. They little guessed what deadly purport lurked in those self-condemning words. “The godly youth!” said they among themselves. “The saint on earth! Alas, if he discern such sinfulness in his own white soul, what horrid spectacle would he behold in thine or mine!”” (pg. 96)

ryan smith link

2/21/2011 09:11:07 am

The irony of Dimmesdales confession was that he confessed but the town still didn't know what he confessed for. It says that he confessed but the town "reverenced him more". He confessed so there should be punishment, but since he never spoke of the crime he therefore cannot be punished.

Ashley Beckham

2/21/2011 09:14:45 am

Question 4

It's ironic that Reverend Dimmesdale makes the public confession of sin because he is mainly talking about himself and his whole congregation doesn't suspect a thing. The book says, "They heard it all but did not reverence him the more. They little guessed what deadly purport lurked in those self-condemning words." (pg. 96)He uses this to his advantage because it's like he's confessing without actually having to deal with the consequences.

ryan smith

2/21/2011 09:18:50 am

reply to thomas; question 4

I totally agree with Thomas because Reverend Dimmesdale tells everyone not to sin but indeed he does it. It's almost as if he belives since he told everyone he sined that was enough and he would be forgiven.

Ashley Beckham

2/21/2011 09:21:34 am

Reply to Ryan; Question 3

I comletely agree with you when you say that Chillingworth is playing mind games with Dimmesdale. He already knows that Dimmesdale is the probable father of Pearl so he tortures the Reverend daily to try to make him feel guilty and confess. Chillingworth says to himself, "This man, pure as they deem him, -all spiritual as he seems,- hath inherited a strong animal nature from his father or his mother. Let us dig a little further in the direction of this vein!" (pg. 86)

ryan smith

2/21/2011 09:23:59 am

reply to emily; question 2

Dimmesdale leads us to believe he is hiding something when he talks to Chillingsworthmm; he is a reverend and holy. He preaches to confess your sins and you will be forgiven but all the sudden he's saying that men have a right to keep theirs to themselves? Sounds like he's got a secret.

Ashley Beckham

2/21/2011 09:31:49 am

Reply to Mallory; Question 3

I agree with your statement that Chillingworth is "more wretched than his victim" because he is more miserable than him. He does try over and over again to no avail to try to get Dimmesdale to admit his sin to him but he has yet to accomplish this. Dimmesdale says to Chillingworth, "No!-not to thee!- not to an earthly physician!" (pg. 91)

Ashley Beckham

2/21/2011 09:42:59 am

Reply to Abby; Question 1

I agree with what you said about the town growing more and more suspicious of Chillingworth. Some people in the town believed Chillingworth was haunted by Satan. "This diabolical had the Divine permission, for a season, to burrow into the clergyman's intimacy,and plot against his soul." (pg. 85)

ryan smith

2/21/2011 09:49:09 am

reply to ashley; quesion 4

I compeltey agree with ashley when she says that Dimmesdale confessed his sin, talking mainly about himself, but didn't tell who did it so the town didn't suspect a thing. Back then, you basically had to go with your believe or opinion of what you think happened. Nobody would beleieve a reverened would sin because they are the preachers of the word of God. I mean...would you honestly belieeve your preacher to commit a sin without any evidence?

cara saxton

2/21/2011 09:59:44 am

agree that Dimmesdale has a secret that does not wish to share

cara saxton

2/21/2011 10:01:09 am

i agree!The townspeople feel that if Dimmesdale remains in this friendship with Chillingworth that he will ultimately lose the battle.

kimberly carpenter.

2/21/2011 10:22:50 am

question 1:

Roger Chillingworth is different in chapter 9 then he was first introduced in the book. He was seen as "elderly and travel worn" pg.139. He is now viewed as smarter and is "extensively aquainted with the medical science of the day",and presented himself as a physician pg.140

kimberly carpenter.

2/21/2011 10:33:37 am

question 2:

Dimmesdale said "they may be kept silent by the very constitution of their nature" also he said men go about among their fellow-creatures, looking pure as new fallen snow while their hearts are all speckled and spotted with iniquity of which they cannot rid themselves". i think he is saying that they basically walk around as if theyre perfect but they hide most of what they are guilty for.

kimberly carpenter.

2/21/2011 10:52:15 am

question 4:

"he had spoken the very truth and transformed it into the veriest falsehood." "and yet, by the constitution of his nature, he loved the truth and loathed the lie, as few men ever did.therfore above all things he loathed his miserable self" He was a preacher but had sinned,so it would have been hard to believe that he would do what he did.

kimberly carpenter.

2/21/2011 10:55:56 am

reply to mallory,question 4.

I agree with you because they did still admire him even though he had sinned as he did.

Abbey Byrd

2/21/2011 11:34:19 am

Question 3

Chillingworth is described as "more wretched than his victim" because he continued being friends with Dimmesdale just trying to pry his deep secret out of him. Therefore, he is more miserable than his victim. In chapter 11, it says "unable to accomplish this he nevertheless, as a matter of principle, continued his habits of social opportunities for perfecting the purpose to which-poor, forlorn creature that he was..". This is saying that he was not able to accomplish uncovering Dimmesdale's secret and this is why he was miserable.

Question 4
How does he take advantage of this?
In chapter 11, the irony of Reverend Dimmesdale's public confession is that the town doesn't know what he is confessing for. Instead of showing hatred and disgust towards him they actually increased their admiration towards him. He took advantage of it because he never said his exact crime therefore he cannot be punished for it.

Abbey Byrd :)

2/21/2011 12:05:01 pm

Reply to Thomas: Q3

I agree with you when you said, Chillingsworth tortures the reverend to try and discover the truth about his dark past. I feel like that is exactly what he is doing. He is befriending Dimmesdale just so he will get his secret out of him. But he has not accomplish this yet.

Reply to Mallory: Q4

I agree with you when you said the towns people showed admiration towards Reverend Dimmesdale when he publicly announced his sin. In the book it said "the godly youth", "The saint on earth". I think they only show admiration toward him because he is a reverend and puritans look up to ministers. Another reasoning is that he did yet blatantly come out and say his exact sin.

Reply to Ryan: Q1

I agree with Ryan when he says Dimmesdale argues that men should be able to hold secrets to their heart because it is their nature to do so and because your secrets are your business between you and god. But also, keep that big secret comes along with punishment within its self. Feelings of stress and hatred towards himself are occurring because he can't get off his mind the sin he committed. It makes things easier when you have someone to talk to about your problems but if you want to keep them to yourself then that is your choice.

Abbey Byrd

2/21/2011 12:05:55 pm

Reply to Ryan: Q2******^^

Thomas Carota

2/21/2011 12:30:02 pm

Reply to Abbey: Question 3

I agree with you completely. On page 83 it says, So Roger Chillingsworth-the man of skill, the kind of physician-strove to go deep into his patient's bosom, delving among his principles, prying into his recollections, and probing everything with a cautious touch, like a treasure-seeker in a dark cavern. He pretends to take care of Dimmesdale when all he is really doing is trying to get the big secret out of him.

Thomas Carota

2/21/2011 12:31:58 pm

Reply to Ashley: Question 4

I completely agree with you about Dimmesdale confessing without actually naming the sin he is confessing for. On page 96 he says, "I, your pastor, whom you so reverence and trust, am utterly a pollution and a lie!" Though he confesses for sinning, he does not tell what sin he has commited.

Thomas Carota

2/21/2011 12:35:44 pm

Reply to Mallory: Question 1

I agree with you on the fact that Chillingsworth appears as a great skillful physician when in fact there is a lot more to that fact. At first the town thought of the Physician as intelligent and skillful (pg 79). But as time went on they believed he was the devil that came to try and harm the reverend (pg 85).

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7/28/2011 12:42:55 pm

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Chapters 9-13

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